Spent the night in Easton, PA on the other side of the Delaware River from Phillipsburg. When I got up this morning it was very very foggy and raining. Ugh! I arrived in a downpour and now it's going to rain again as I'm about ready to leave? It's fine.
In looking things over last night, I decided to go back to Newton today, which is the county seat of Sussex County. Even though most of the towns where Mann families lived are today in Warren County, back then, which is to say 1776-1820s those towns were all still in Sussex County, so I have to go there if I hope to find records that old. Still it wasn't exactly records I was in search of. At this point I need to get to things that are not available on the internet, and that comes down to research collected by other researchers which are things usually found at genealogical societies. And for once I had good luck! The ONLY day that the Sussex County Historical Society museum and research library was open was today from 9-1. So off I went.
Today I decided to go north on the Pennsylvania side, and the road runs right along the Delaware River, which was quite beautiful even in the rain. I couldn't help but think about Washington's army crossing this river - even though that was much farther south near Trenton - but it's still a picture to imagine the river frozen and the Continental Army stealing their way across to defeat the British in surprise attacks. This area is full of so much history.
So the visit in Newton was a good one. They didn't have much for Mann or Knofts and very little about Summers, but the good news was that a "specialist" on Sussex County deeds was there and we sat looking at his homegrown database for two hours. Even though I have seen several of the deeds he showed me, there were new details to be revealed! I believe it's because this man has been reading ooooold English handwriting for much longer than me, and so his eye was able to translate more than I could make out. So cool!
After the museum closed, I took off back to the PA side to drive around but realized that the places I might need to visit were just too far to cover in the time I had left. So I picked a couple more scenic routes as I headed my way back east for the night. Interestingly the place I got a room is in Basking Ridge, which is the town where my old college roommate and good friend Bebe grew up! I didn't have any idea I was in her area when I booked the room, so that's fun.
So tomorrow, back to Newark for the flight home. I've covered a whole lot of miles with only minor success in adding to the family tree stories: Gillespie/Greer, Schaefer, and Mann. But maybe the thing to be learned was not in the details but in getting a feeling for the places where they all lived. I've never spent much time in this part of the country, and every time I come I find it more beautiful (well, we can probably leave NYC out of that description - that falls into a whole other world!). What it must have been like to be here from places like Northern Ireland and Germany when this land was really still wild and men and women alike had to face the unknown in almost every aspect of their daily lives in the New World. They are the ones who helped to shape the new country, whose values helped to define our democracy. It's really an amazing legacy we all share.
Friday, September 28, 2012
Thursday, September 27, 2012
Thurs - Warren County, New Jersey
If you've been following this blog, you already know this research trip has been only marginally productive. So besides not finding anything that helps my research, the fast pace of the NYC area leaves me feeling edgey. So I decided that in the time I have left, I should return to New Jersey in hopes of finding a thing or two of interest about the Mann line, and that's what I have done. It took over two hours to get off "the island", a grueling stop-and-go crawl. But I just kept willing the car to go west. I was prepared to swim across the Hudson if all else failed. I'm glad it didn't come to that - I'm told that nobody gets INTO the Hudson any more....
I arrived in Phillipsburg, New Jersey just after lunch. Phillipsburg is just across the Delaware River from Easton, PA. From the research we've done to date, we know that the Mann's landed in Philadelphia and made their way up the Delaware, mostly settling on the New Jersey side (there has been some evidence of some families staying or moving to the PA side). At that time, we're talking about 1776 Revolution time, this part of New Jersey was Sussex County. Today the towns where Mann's had been: Knowlton, Oxford, Harmony, Washington, are all in Warren County.
So because Mann research was not at all on my radar for this trip, I come here without a PLAN!!! OH NO!!! What am I now, a tourist??? Pretty much. So I decided to go visit cemeteries. Here's where I went:
1. The St. James Lutheran church is here in Phillipsburg - just up the road from the library where I stopped before going anywhere else. The church is still there (whether it's the original, I'm not sure), and still operating. The cemetery is just across the street which is quite a busy road and very noisy, so not at all peaceful. The really old graves are right up to the fence where the road is - I can only imagine that they had trouble convincing authorities to preserve the cemetery at all. In any case, many many of the gravestones in there can no longer be read, and there was no apparent place to ask for locations. My guess is that maybe there is a church record saying gggggg-grandpa George Summers was buried there, but without the location and/or a stone we can read, we don't know where. And it's hard to say whether we have other relations in this cemetery, Summers or Mann's.
2. Then drove north along the Delaware River to a place called Ramsayburg (the village is called Delaware I think within the township of Knowlton). In any case, I picked this cemetery because this is where Andrew Banghart is buried, a good friend of our Ernest Mann and husband of Maria Summers' sister Catherine. This cemetery was ALSO on a noisy road, which annoyed me for some reason - because this cemetery was chock full of people we know and the graves are all so old, it just seems like they should have a little peace and quiet! In any case, even though we already have pictures of all the graves I took pictures of, it was still very cool to see them in person. And lots of names we know: Banghart, Brands, Kirkhuff, Angle, Allison and more. Again, this cemetery does not have an office for locating graves, so I just wandered. Many stones here also can no longer be read, but not as many as are at the St. James Cemetery. In any case, if there are Mann's buried there, I did not find them. It was a very good try though!
3. From Ramsayburg, I drove back south, this time looping over to Washington township. Didn't see much there of any interest to speak of. So I set the car back toward Phillipsburg and a few miles out of town I passed a street sign that said Montana Road and screeched and veered until I was doing what? Yes, going UP the windy road of Scotts Mountain, the birth place of gg-grandma Sarah Mann - unbelievable! It is very densely wooded so the road is like going through a canopy of leaves, which are just starting to turn colors. I finally got to the top of the mountain where the view seemed to open up a bit, and I randomly turned left and immediately screeched to a stop again. I was sitting in front of the old Montana Methodist church and its old graveyard. Very small cemetery, but it is essentially full of names we know: Deremer, Fangboner, Rush, Beers, and even one of our own: Elizabeth Mann, the only one of the 2nd generation Ernest Mann family not to survive to have her own family or travel west to Michigan. I loved this cemetery. It is in such a beautiful location and it is wonderfully peaceful. It's worth noting that we are pretty darned sure that the first generation on Mann's were Lutheran, but that many of this second generation were Methodist. Or were they? I have in my tree that 2nd-Gen Ernest Mann was a trustee of the Scott's Mountain Presbyterian Church in 1815. I was told on this trip by a town historian that Presbyterians and Reformed churches often exchanged members, but those churches in particular frowned upon the Methodists. So what religion were the Mann's practicing?? I suppose it's fair to say God Only Knows.
So that's my afternoon - and I have to say probably the most fun I've had since I got here. Didn't learn one darned thing, but it sure does change the pictures in my mind. Now I have to find some dinner and then find my AirBNB room over in Easton, which I felt very lucky to find on no notice. Hopefully I'll get a good night's sleep before my last day of adventures tomorrow.
Wed. - Queens
Yesterday I decided to head for the Surrogate Court in Jamaica, Queens, NY. I waited until after rush hour and then headed out with my trusty GPS. The traffic was fine but once I got there, the only apparent place to park was in a private lot. After much haggling with the lot owners, who sounded to my ear like they were speaking Greek, they "allowed" me to keep my car key and park for $24. It turned out I only needed to be there 45 minutes rather than all day, but there was no way to know that ahead of time so I bought myself an expensive parking space.
My goal in going to the Surrogate Court was to find records pertaining to g-grandfather Charles Schaefer who died in 1929. He was the sickly guy who was a chauffeur on Wall Street, but I knew that he had also purchased a house in Amenia, NY which was later sold by my grandfather, George Schaefer. But once again, I came up empty - there were no records on file for either Charles Schaefer or his wife who died three years after Charles, Marie "Mary" Klein Schaefer. So if the Amenia house did not pass through the probate court after Charles' death, I can only think that he gave or sold it to his son before he died. Bummer.
So I headed back in the direction of cousin Carol's house and found the local library where I spent the afternoon. All of Carols' kids were off school because of the Jewish holiday. In fact, I'm told that's why I got along on the Expressway as well as I did because alot of people are off work as well. Happy New Year.
My goal in going to the Surrogate Court was to find records pertaining to g-grandfather Charles Schaefer who died in 1929. He was the sickly guy who was a chauffeur on Wall Street, but I knew that he had also purchased a house in Amenia, NY which was later sold by my grandfather, George Schaefer. But once again, I came up empty - there were no records on file for either Charles Schaefer or his wife who died three years after Charles, Marie "Mary" Klein Schaefer. So if the Amenia house did not pass through the probate court after Charles' death, I can only think that he gave or sold it to his son before he died. Bummer.
So I headed back in the direction of cousin Carol's house and found the local library where I spent the afternoon. All of Carols' kids were off school because of the Jewish holiday. In fact, I'm told that's why I got along on the Expressway as well as I did because alot of people are off work as well. Happy New Year.
Wednesday, September 26, 2012
Tues - Manhattan
To say that I am like a fish out of water when I am anywhere near a place like NYC is an understatement. Luckily cousin Carol has been helpful beyond words. She took me to the LIRR and helped explain which subway trains I would need to get where I wanted to be yesterday, and eventually I did find my way to the Municipal Archives in downtown Manhattan. The experience was not quite what I had hoped for. Things were not exactly labeled clearly, and there was nobody at the desk who was available or willing to offer much help. I managed to find some old films any way, but then it seemed that every other film reader was not working. And so on. I won't complain but it seemed like another disappointing waste of time on my part.
So before making my way back to Penn Station I remembered that the Archives were in the vicinity of where the World Trade Centers had been. So I walked there, and saw all the construction going on for the Freedom Tower - one of a couple new buildings going up in the area. Here is a picture:
There is a memorial park nearby where the original buildings were, but I got myself turned around and didn't see it; I wish I had. Nevertheless I have to admit feeling a sense of disbelief as I was standing on a corner looking up, people bustling all around me. How could such massive buildings come crashing down? How terrifying and terrible that day in 2001 must have been and I realize I probably don't even have the capacity to imagine it. But it felt important to me to be there to pay my respects, and I'm glad I went there.
I made my way back to Long Island with little trouble, and then we adults went out to a late dinner: Carol and her husband Greg, cousin Thomas and his wife Car, and me. We had a wonderful dinner together and it was fun catching up with everybody. My Schaefer cousins are really wonderful people.
Today's activities are still in the works as I am changing my mind about going into the city again. The question is now whether I want to go to Brooklyn. We'll see.
So before making my way back to Penn Station I remembered that the Archives were in the vicinity of where the World Trade Centers had been. So I walked there, and saw all the construction going on for the Freedom Tower - one of a couple new buildings going up in the area. Here is a picture:
There is a memorial park nearby where the original buildings were, but I got myself turned around and didn't see it; I wish I had. Nevertheless I have to admit feeling a sense of disbelief as I was standing on a corner looking up, people bustling all around me. How could such massive buildings come crashing down? How terrifying and terrible that day in 2001 must have been and I realize I probably don't even have the capacity to imagine it. But it felt important to me to be there to pay my respects, and I'm glad I went there.
I made my way back to Long Island with little trouble, and then we adults went out to a late dinner: Carol and her husband Greg, cousin Thomas and his wife Car, and me. We had a wonderful dinner together and it was fun catching up with everybody. My Schaefer cousins are really wonderful people.
Today's activities are still in the works as I am changing my mind about going into the city again. The question is now whether I want to go to Brooklyn. We'll see.
Monday, September 24, 2012
Monday Monday - Long Island
Saturday and Sunday were spent in Flemington, NJ in the company of my 82-year-old uncle, George Schaefer, Jr. On Sunday, we drove down to PA to visit Genny Schaefer who is (I believe) 87 years old and the wife of Uncle George's cousin "Charlie-boy". We had a very long lunch together with Genny's daughter Patti, and we learned alot by hearing Genny and Uncle George talk about the old days in Brooklyn and Long Island. It's fun to connect the dots at last.
This morning I took off back to Goshen, NY as I had received a call from one of the volunteers at OCGS that the courthouse would be re-opened this week. Sadly, after a two-hour drive in LOTS of traffic, I arrived only to be turned away again - apparently a vandal had gotten into the courthouse again and now it will be closed all week. I can hardly believe my bad luck about this as I had pinned a great many hopes on breaking down our Gillespie-Greer brick walls by some clue that is buried in Goshen. There are just no good words for how sad I am about this not working out.
So there was really no choice but to head for Long Island. If there is a lucky thing, I was coming from the north and crossed the Hudson at the Tappan Zee (fun name!) bridge near Tarrytown. And because it was early in the day, the traffic was light and I found myself on Long Island by 12:30 and so decided I had plenty of time to go to Brooklyn, which was a mistake as "normal" traffic there is a stop-and-go parking lot, right? I pushed forward to the Most Holy Trinity Cemetery where I discovered only a security guard and no office, so I had to call them and they seemed to be alarmed that I was in that cemetery by myself. (I can't get my head around the idea that a Catholic cemetery is a dangerous place to be.) So because they were worried about me I think, they did the look-up on the phone. Adam Vierling and his family are indeed buried there, but my hope upon hopes that Maria Magdalena Vierling, my Schaefer gg-grandmother, would be buried with them was dashed. There were many Mary Schaefer's buried there, but none within the time frame 1900-1905, so if Maria is there: a) I have the dates wrong or b) she remarried possibly and is buried under another name or c) she is not buried in MHT cemetery and maybe even not in NY. There is just no way to know. Another disappointment.
The traffic back to LIE (Long Island Expressway) looked so terrible, that I reset the GPS to go down the Southern State Parkway, which was quite pleasant and went past Seaford which is where my Uncle Tom used to live and I was remembering visiting him there when I was a kid. I then went to St. Charles Cemetery in Farmingdale to visit Uncle Tom's grave and to look up some other relations, who were indeed there! Both of my grandfather's siblings and their spouses are there: Charles F. and Frances Witt Schaefer, and William and Ruth Schaefer Falkenthal. St. Charles, like most cemeteries on Long Island, is massive - the grounds have to be at least one square mile. Luckily the office was very good at directing me as I would never have found them on my own. I took pictures and will post them to the family tree at some point.
So I'm off to cousin Carol's for the evening, and tomorrow - supposedly - I am venturing into Manhattan to visit the Municpal Archives. We'll see if my luck takes a turn for the better - sure hope so!
This morning I took off back to Goshen, NY as I had received a call from one of the volunteers at OCGS that the courthouse would be re-opened this week. Sadly, after a two-hour drive in LOTS of traffic, I arrived only to be turned away again - apparently a vandal had gotten into the courthouse again and now it will be closed all week. I can hardly believe my bad luck about this as I had pinned a great many hopes on breaking down our Gillespie-Greer brick walls by some clue that is buried in Goshen. There are just no good words for how sad I am about this not working out.
So there was really no choice but to head for Long Island. If there is a lucky thing, I was coming from the north and crossed the Hudson at the Tappan Zee (fun name!) bridge near Tarrytown. And because it was early in the day, the traffic was light and I found myself on Long Island by 12:30 and so decided I had plenty of time to go to Brooklyn, which was a mistake as "normal" traffic there is a stop-and-go parking lot, right? I pushed forward to the Most Holy Trinity Cemetery where I discovered only a security guard and no office, so I had to call them and they seemed to be alarmed that I was in that cemetery by myself. (I can't get my head around the idea that a Catholic cemetery is a dangerous place to be.) So because they were worried about me I think, they did the look-up on the phone. Adam Vierling and his family are indeed buried there, but my hope upon hopes that Maria Magdalena Vierling, my Schaefer gg-grandmother, would be buried with them was dashed. There were many Mary Schaefer's buried there, but none within the time frame 1900-1905, so if Maria is there: a) I have the dates wrong or b) she remarried possibly and is buried under another name or c) she is not buried in MHT cemetery and maybe even not in NY. There is just no way to know. Another disappointment.
The traffic back to LIE (Long Island Expressway) looked so terrible, that I reset the GPS to go down the Southern State Parkway, which was quite pleasant and went past Seaford which is where my Uncle Tom used to live and I was remembering visiting him there when I was a kid. I then went to St. Charles Cemetery in Farmingdale to visit Uncle Tom's grave and to look up some other relations, who were indeed there! Both of my grandfather's siblings and their spouses are there: Charles F. and Frances Witt Schaefer, and William and Ruth Schaefer Falkenthal. St. Charles, like most cemeteries on Long Island, is massive - the grounds have to be at least one square mile. Luckily the office was very good at directing me as I would never have found them on my own. I took pictures and will post them to the family tree at some point.
So I'm off to cousin Carol's for the evening, and tomorrow - supposedly - I am venturing into Manhattan to visit the Municpal Archives. We'll see if my luck takes a turn for the better - sure hope so!
Saturday, September 22, 2012
Friday - A Bust!
Got up bright and early to be in Goshen right when things opened at 9 a.m. The reference library of the Orange County Genealogical Society is THE place to get info that simply cannot be located elsewhere, things like compilations of work done by other researchers. I have learned such things are of immense value. But it was not to be on Friday. It turns out that somebody broke into the old courthouse where the library is located the night before and there were police everywhere and half the block was taped off! The county historian was running around obviously upset - nobody would say what got taken, but from the looks on her face, something that was in her office! So then the police jumped on everybody - they took my name, birth date, phone number, and interrogated me about where I was last night - it was unbelievable! I just melted into the background and slipped back to my car.
So what now? Orange County was probably the most important research day for Gillespie-Greer, and I came a very long way only to be turned away. I did talk to some other members of OCGS while there, and they all offered to open the library for me any time (once they were allowed back in) since I came from so far away, but when can I get back there? There's a chance it has reopened today (Saturday), but I haven't called. I am with my Uncle George Schaefer in Flemington, NJ, and have a commitment to do things with him this weekend. But maybe Monday, I can return to Goshen. This will change all my research plans in NYC, but I guess it's good that I have some flexibility.
So without access to county records, I decided to drive to the towns. First I drove up to Pine Bush, NY where many many Gillespie names are on records. I spent some time at the library and they gave me the number the village historian, but she was not available, so I decided to move on. I was going to go next to Walden (the township that would have included Walkill), but decided to push through to Montgomery where I believe our people most likely were. I have learned so much about NY districts that I wish I had understood better before, but I guess that's how we learn. In NY, the word "town" really means what I would call a "township" - an area that includes several towns. But in NY, they have "villages" within the "towns". What a mess. So basically when I got to Montgomery I stopped at the Village library and then talked to the Village Clerk, and finally they were able to relay to me that I had to go to entirely different offices to talk to the Town Clerk. And by that time, it was too late - the office of the Town Clerk closes at noon on Friday. Oi. Batting zero for me.
I then drove back to Goshen to see if the police mess was any better, and it wasn't. So that's when I started thinking I should head to New Jersey. Right before I left CO, I had talked to cousin Janice and told her that sadly I would not have any time for New Jersey research on this trip, and so would not be able to do any Mann research. But if I had a wish, it would be to find where our ggg-grandparents Ersnt Menge and Maria Magdalena Summers were buried as we really have no clue. We don't even know when Maria died. Soooooo, of course I had jotted down where the Surrogate Courthouse is in Newton, Sussex County, NJ, and that became my next destination. The GPS took me all along back winding roads and it was quite beautiful. Newton, however, is a bigger city than I imagined, and getting into the courthouse was a bit of a challenge. Nevertheless, I was able to get to the records, and found a couple things of some interest about Summers (which I didn't study, just copied and will study later), but we still have no clue about Maria's death nor where our original Mann immigrants were buried.
By that time, I had been in the car driving most of the day & was pooped & of course now the Friday afternoon traffic was mounting. It took an hour in stop-and-go to get to Uncle George's in Flemington, but I made by 4 p.m. Whew! And there was Uncle George and cousin George in the driveway in their bee outfits unloading the truck belonging to Jean's Honey. It was quite a welcome sight and they gave me a warm welcome. Cousin George and wife are headed to Czech Republic today, so we all went to dinner last night and had a pleasant and relaxing evening together.
So, Friday was a long day with not much to show for research, but I guess one can expect and should probably plan for the unexpected. Luckily I am here long enough where I can juggle the schedule, so I'm hoping it will work out to return to Goshen on Monday before heading out Long Island. Lots of driving, lots of traffic, and I just have to keep gulping deep breaths and telling myself it's worth it to be here. And it is.
So what now? Orange County was probably the most important research day for Gillespie-Greer, and I came a very long way only to be turned away. I did talk to some other members of OCGS while there, and they all offered to open the library for me any time (once they were allowed back in) since I came from so far away, but when can I get back there? There's a chance it has reopened today (Saturday), but I haven't called. I am with my Uncle George Schaefer in Flemington, NJ, and have a commitment to do things with him this weekend. But maybe Monday, I can return to Goshen. This will change all my research plans in NYC, but I guess it's good that I have some flexibility.
So without access to county records, I decided to drive to the towns. First I drove up to Pine Bush, NY where many many Gillespie names are on records. I spent some time at the library and they gave me the number the village historian, but she was not available, so I decided to move on. I was going to go next to Walden (the township that would have included Walkill), but decided to push through to Montgomery where I believe our people most likely were. I have learned so much about NY districts that I wish I had understood better before, but I guess that's how we learn. In NY, the word "town" really means what I would call a "township" - an area that includes several towns. But in NY, they have "villages" within the "towns". What a mess. So basically when I got to Montgomery I stopped at the Village library and then talked to the Village Clerk, and finally they were able to relay to me that I had to go to entirely different offices to talk to the Town Clerk. And by that time, it was too late - the office of the Town Clerk closes at noon on Friday. Oi. Batting zero for me.
I then drove back to Goshen to see if the police mess was any better, and it wasn't. So that's when I started thinking I should head to New Jersey. Right before I left CO, I had talked to cousin Janice and told her that sadly I would not have any time for New Jersey research on this trip, and so would not be able to do any Mann research. But if I had a wish, it would be to find where our ggg-grandparents Ersnt Menge and Maria Magdalena Summers were buried as we really have no clue. We don't even know when Maria died. Soooooo, of course I had jotted down where the Surrogate Courthouse is in Newton, Sussex County, NJ, and that became my next destination. The GPS took me all along back winding roads and it was quite beautiful. Newton, however, is a bigger city than I imagined, and getting into the courthouse was a bit of a challenge. Nevertheless, I was able to get to the records, and found a couple things of some interest about Summers (which I didn't study, just copied and will study later), but we still have no clue about Maria's death nor where our original Mann immigrants were buried.
By that time, I had been in the car driving most of the day & was pooped & of course now the Friday afternoon traffic was mounting. It took an hour in stop-and-go to get to Uncle George's in Flemington, but I made by 4 p.m. Whew! And there was Uncle George and cousin George in the driveway in their bee outfits unloading the truck belonging to Jean's Honey. It was quite a welcome sight and they gave me a warm welcome. Cousin George and wife are headed to Czech Republic today, so we all went to dinner last night and had a pleasant and relaxing evening together.
So, Friday was a long day with not much to show for research, but I guess one can expect and should probably plan for the unexpected. Luckily I am here long enough where I can juggle the schedule, so I'm hoping it will work out to return to Goshen on Monday before heading out Long Island. Lots of driving, lots of traffic, and I just have to keep gulping deep breaths and telling myself it's worth it to be here. And it is.
Thursday, September 20, 2012
Thurs. - Dutchess County, NY
Well, the first order of the day was a change of plans. Originally I was going to stop in Kingston, NY next as this is the county seat of Ulster County, but decided in the short amount of time I have, the time is much better spent in Dutchess County where I have at least a couple "sightings" of our Greer's. So on to Poughkeepsie! First I got to enjoy the scenery since I had driven up to Albany in the dark and rain. The countryside is quite rolling and hilly, very treed and beautiful. And then I got to cross the Hudson for the first time, and the FDR Mid-Hudson Bridge was quite cool.
So here are all the places I went to today: the Dutchess County Genealogical Society Research Library, the Adriance Memorial Library, the DC County Clerk and the DC Surrogate Court - all these in Poughkeepsie, then off to the Pleasant Valley Historical Society where a volunteer on oxygen agreed to come meet me (!!!), and finally to the Blodgett Memorial Library where I decided to stop on a pure whim, and who should be there only from 2-7 p.m ONLY on Thursdays but the local town historian. OMG did I have fun talking to her. AND she was able to explain a whole lot to me about Dutchess County township lines as well as church affiliations. I explained to her that I couldn't quite understand why I was suddenly finding Greer's in Dutch Reformed Church Records when I know they were Presbyterian and she said because those churches are basically the same in the catechism and that people back then as well as today went/go between them with no trouble. She said she herself was raised Presbyterian but currently attends a Reformed Church. So this is very interesting, and gives me hope that the Greer's (or GRIER as the earlier spelling seems to be) found in Reformed Church Records might indeed be ours.
I found a whole lot of things today that are noteworthy, but not much earth-shaking and so I will probably post more in-depth details on my Gillespie-Greer blog page when I get home. However, there was one thing that made my pulse pick up. When going through a publication called "Vital Records of the Presbyterian Church of Pleasant Valley", I found the following: a child named Jane, born 4 Aug 1812, baptized 23 Apr 1816, parents Robert and Nancy Greer. Also on 1 May 1814 is a confirmation for Nancy Grier.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??
To remind some, the family story that was passed down was that two Gillespie sisters married two Greer brothers and they emigrated to America. James Greer and his wife Jane Gillespie Greer definitely represent one of those couples, and they are among the pioneers who we know came from New York and then migrated to Michigan where they lived out their lives. We know that Jane Gillespie had a sister named Nancy, who also ended up in Michigan, and we know from Nancy's probate records that she had a daughter named Mary Greer, and thus we can assume that Nancy's first husband was a GREER, AND this couple obviously qualifies as the second Gillespie-Greer couple. But we have never known who the mystery Greer was, Nancy's first husband. I would have bet money based on naming patterns that we were looking for a Thomas Greer, but Noooooooooooooo. I think our mystery Greer was Robert. And they had a child named Jane who apparently did not survive.
So maybe this is the one tiny clue I was hoping to find, although I can still wish to find a few more. It occurs to me there was a Robert Greer who could be found in the Fishkill area in the decades after everybody else left for Michigan and it then occurred to me today that maybe Nancy's first husband didn't die as we have presumed but rather their marriage was divorced. Unfortunately I was nowhere close to any place I might hunt for such information, but that can be added to a list of something to check. Suffice it to say I have been madly looking for any other mentions of a Robert and/or Nancy Greer, and so far nada. After all, a clue is only a clue. Be careful what you ask for, right? :-)
I will end by saying that I am spending the night in New Windsor, NY, which meant crossing the Hudson again, going west at sunset. I cannot remember when I last saw a sunset that breathtaking - it was stupendous, even magical setting over the hills - or do they call those things mountains here? Hmmm, yes, looking it up, it seems some rise to 750 feet at Newburgh. Well, even if not the Rockies, the sight which I imagine the ancestors sharing was stunning.
So here are all the places I went to today: the Dutchess County Genealogical Society Research Library, the Adriance Memorial Library, the DC County Clerk and the DC Surrogate Court - all these in Poughkeepsie, then off to the Pleasant Valley Historical Society where a volunteer on oxygen agreed to come meet me (!!!), and finally to the Blodgett Memorial Library where I decided to stop on a pure whim, and who should be there only from 2-7 p.m ONLY on Thursdays but the local town historian. OMG did I have fun talking to her. AND she was able to explain a whole lot to me about Dutchess County township lines as well as church affiliations. I explained to her that I couldn't quite understand why I was suddenly finding Greer's in Dutch Reformed Church Records when I know they were Presbyterian and she said because those churches are basically the same in the catechism and that people back then as well as today went/go between them with no trouble. She said she herself was raised Presbyterian but currently attends a Reformed Church. So this is very interesting, and gives me hope that the Greer's (or GRIER as the earlier spelling seems to be) found in Reformed Church Records might indeed be ours.
I found a whole lot of things today that are noteworthy, but not much earth-shaking and so I will probably post more in-depth details on my Gillespie-Greer blog page when I get home. However, there was one thing that made my pulse pick up. When going through a publication called "Vital Records of the Presbyterian Church of Pleasant Valley", I found the following: a child named Jane, born 4 Aug 1812, baptized 23 Apr 1816, parents Robert and Nancy Greer. Also on 1 May 1814 is a confirmation for Nancy Grier.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??
To remind some, the family story that was passed down was that two Gillespie sisters married two Greer brothers and they emigrated to America. James Greer and his wife Jane Gillespie Greer definitely represent one of those couples, and they are among the pioneers who we know came from New York and then migrated to Michigan where they lived out their lives. We know that Jane Gillespie had a sister named Nancy, who also ended up in Michigan, and we know from Nancy's probate records that she had a daughter named Mary Greer, and thus we can assume that Nancy's first husband was a GREER, AND this couple obviously qualifies as the second Gillespie-Greer couple. But we have never known who the mystery Greer was, Nancy's first husband. I would have bet money based on naming patterns that we were looking for a Thomas Greer, but Noooooooooooooo. I think our mystery Greer was Robert. And they had a child named Jane who apparently did not survive.
So maybe this is the one tiny clue I was hoping to find, although I can still wish to find a few more. It occurs to me there was a Robert Greer who could be found in the Fishkill area in the decades after everybody else left for Michigan and it then occurred to me today that maybe Nancy's first husband didn't die as we have presumed but rather their marriage was divorced. Unfortunately I was nowhere close to any place I might hunt for such information, but that can be added to a list of something to check. Suffice it to say I have been madly looking for any other mentions of a Robert and/or Nancy Greer, and so far nada. After all, a clue is only a clue. Be careful what you ask for, right? :-)
I will end by saying that I am spending the night in New Windsor, NY, which meant crossing the Hudson again, going west at sunset. I cannot remember when I last saw a sunset that breathtaking - it was stupendous, even magical setting over the hills - or do they call those things mountains here? Hmmm, yes, looking it up, it seems some rise to 750 feet at Newburgh. Well, even if not the Rockies, the sight which I imagine the ancestors sharing was stunning.
Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Wed. - Albany, NY
Started the day by getting lost, naturally, trying to find the breakfast place my hostess recommended. Ended up going to a cafe which was really a bar, so I sat at the bar and ordered the cheapest thing on the menu, which was $10 for a very greasy omelette. Ugh. But having skipped dinner the night before, nourishment t'was necessary.
As in Michigan, the State Archives in New York are housed in the same building as the State Library, and both have a historical museum to boot. It's a huge building, and the Archives is up on the 11th floor and is quite an impressive place. They have lockers for "stuff" and major security screening - basically you don't enter "the clean room" with anything but folders that have no pockets. Because they let me contact them ahead of time by email, they had everything I wanted ready and waiting. So it was somewhat of a let-down when in the space of 30 minutes, I knew there was nothing pertaining to Gillespie or Greer. Normally this might seem upsetting but since this is now the 4th State Archives I have visited (MI, CO, NJ, and NY), I have learned that State Archives only hold STATE records and nothing more (well, that's not exactly true, but that's what people who want to cut finances to archives will tell you). Generally speaking, the records we care must about are generated by counties and cities, but it's good to cover the bases.
I did, however, get the attention of one of the archivists, and he said that I need to check the index for state land patents. Even though I kept telling him that my people did not arrive early enough to be getting land from the government, I decided to check any way. There were two Gillaspy's that didn't look familiar at all, but then one for 11 legal representatives of Robert Gillespie, deceased. The deed (or whatever this is) was dated August 16, 1807 and was for a military tract in Sterling. Never heard of that, right? Well, we go to the desk and ask for the gazateer and NY has three places called Sterling - one in Herkimer County (no idea about that one), one in Cayuga County but that was established in 1812, after this transaction, and the other (TA DA) was part of Warwick township (called Sterling Works) in Orange County! This place is right on the New Jersey line, and qualifies as a possible location where pre-Michigan Gillespie's might have been. Even though there are MANY Gillespie names in other parts of Orange County - most notably Montogomery and Walkill, we have NOT been able to make a single connection - although there are so many collateral families that match those who married Gillespie's and Greer's it's hard to ignore. Even so, this new location is worth looking into and remembering, mostly because of the date which is when I hypothesize our people were definitely on the ground, so to speak. In any case, the 11 legal representatives ARE named and here they are: James, James Jr., Jane, John, Matthew, Olive, Polly (probably Mary), Samuel, William, Burr, and Barbara - all Gillespie's. As a final note on this topic, this patent leads us to believe there was a Robert Gillespie who served in the Revolutionary War. You'd think this would be the place to find such records - but I didn't have any luck there either. The archivist told me that if I don't know what militia he served with, there's no good way to track it, and even if we did have the militia info, it wouldn't tell us much more than a name. In those days, joining the military did not involve writing down where you came from or where you lived or who your family was, especially during a revolution against the King's redcoats....
I spent the rest of the day in the State Library, which was truly disappointing. At least half of the things I pulled from the catalog could not be located on the shelves - which seems preposterous. My feeling is that a good many things have been misfiled (which then makes them lost) and/or their catalog has no relation whatsoever to what is on their shelves. VERY frustrating as a number of titles were full of promise, like Pleasant Valley Church Records, to name just one. However, I did find a few things, and made notes about other Gillespie families I find. I think I have mentioned this before, but I have found lots of evidence that the Greer's were Presbyterian (Covenanters), but no trace of that affiliation for Gillespie's. For example, in Montgomery where the most Gillespie families appear during 1800-1830, the following families are having lots of kids and christening them at the Montgomery Dutch Reformed Church: Martinus Millspaugh & Susannah Gillespy, James Sloat & Phebe Upright (father of Henry Sloat who married Mary Ann Gillespie, and became guardian for Thomas Gillespie when he was declared incompetent), Robert Gillespie & Lea Crans, Andrew Gillespie & Elsie Crans, Andrew Van Buskirk & Mary Gillespie, Matthew Gillespie & Mary Tiers, Adam Lebolt & Hannah Gillespie. And this area is just brimming with names tied to Greer or Gillespie: Rainey, Crawford, Hunter, McKinney, Beattie. On and on. But how does it all fit? Still no clue. The best I can hope for in the next two days is a miracle even if it comes in form of one tiny clue - just one. We have to be close!
As in Michigan, the State Archives in New York are housed in the same building as the State Library, and both have a historical museum to boot. It's a huge building, and the Archives is up on the 11th floor and is quite an impressive place. They have lockers for "stuff" and major security screening - basically you don't enter "the clean room" with anything but folders that have no pockets. Because they let me contact them ahead of time by email, they had everything I wanted ready and waiting. So it was somewhat of a let-down when in the space of 30 minutes, I knew there was nothing pertaining to Gillespie or Greer. Normally this might seem upsetting but since this is now the 4th State Archives I have visited (MI, CO, NJ, and NY), I have learned that State Archives only hold STATE records and nothing more (well, that's not exactly true, but that's what people who want to cut finances to archives will tell you). Generally speaking, the records we care must about are generated by counties and cities, but it's good to cover the bases.
I did, however, get the attention of one of the archivists, and he said that I need to check the index for state land patents. Even though I kept telling him that my people did not arrive early enough to be getting land from the government, I decided to check any way. There were two Gillaspy's that didn't look familiar at all, but then one for 11 legal representatives of Robert Gillespie, deceased. The deed (or whatever this is) was dated August 16, 1807 and was for a military tract in Sterling. Never heard of that, right? Well, we go to the desk and ask for the gazateer and NY has three places called Sterling - one in Herkimer County (no idea about that one), one in Cayuga County but that was established in 1812, after this transaction, and the other (TA DA) was part of Warwick township (called Sterling Works) in Orange County! This place is right on the New Jersey line, and qualifies as a possible location where pre-Michigan Gillespie's might have been. Even though there are MANY Gillespie names in other parts of Orange County - most notably Montogomery and Walkill, we have NOT been able to make a single connection - although there are so many collateral families that match those who married Gillespie's and Greer's it's hard to ignore. Even so, this new location is worth looking into and remembering, mostly because of the date which is when I hypothesize our people were definitely on the ground, so to speak. In any case, the 11 legal representatives ARE named and here they are: James, James Jr., Jane, John, Matthew, Olive, Polly (probably Mary), Samuel, William, Burr, and Barbara - all Gillespie's. As a final note on this topic, this patent leads us to believe there was a Robert Gillespie who served in the Revolutionary War. You'd think this would be the place to find such records - but I didn't have any luck there either. The archivist told me that if I don't know what militia he served with, there's no good way to track it, and even if we did have the militia info, it wouldn't tell us much more than a name. In those days, joining the military did not involve writing down where you came from or where you lived or who your family was, especially during a revolution against the King's redcoats....
I spent the rest of the day in the State Library, which was truly disappointing. At least half of the things I pulled from the catalog could not be located on the shelves - which seems preposterous. My feeling is that a good many things have been misfiled (which then makes them lost) and/or their catalog has no relation whatsoever to what is on their shelves. VERY frustrating as a number of titles were full of promise, like Pleasant Valley Church Records, to name just one. However, I did find a few things, and made notes about other Gillespie families I find. I think I have mentioned this before, but I have found lots of evidence that the Greer's were Presbyterian (Covenanters), but no trace of that affiliation for Gillespie's. For example, in Montgomery where the most Gillespie families appear during 1800-1830, the following families are having lots of kids and christening them at the Montgomery Dutch Reformed Church: Martinus Millspaugh & Susannah Gillespy, James Sloat & Phebe Upright (father of Henry Sloat who married Mary Ann Gillespie, and became guardian for Thomas Gillespie when he was declared incompetent), Robert Gillespie & Lea Crans, Andrew Gillespie & Elsie Crans, Andrew Van Buskirk & Mary Gillespie, Matthew Gillespie & Mary Tiers, Adam Lebolt & Hannah Gillespie. And this area is just brimming with names tied to Greer or Gillespie: Rainey, Crawford, Hunter, McKinney, Beattie. On and on. But how does it all fit? Still no clue. The best I can hope for in the next two days is a miracle even if it comes in form of one tiny clue - just one. We have to be close!
Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Tuesday - Travel Day
What a day. Checked my flight before we left the house this morning and all was on time, but by the time I got to the airport, the flight was delayed 2 hours - something about air traffic control was shutting down many flights in NY/NJ area because of high winds. So wait. Luckily they were able to take off sooner than expected and I arrived in Newark at 6 p.m. when I should have arrived at 4:20 p.m. Not so terrible. Except exactly then a gigantic thunderstorm unleashed itself just as I was getting into the rental car and was scratching my head wondering how to work the windshield wipers. Holy Tamole. No sooner did I leave the airport grounds than I was lost almost immediately because a) the GPS was pointing one direction while the road signs were pointing a different way, b) the DELUGE was coming down in such torrents that cars were going 10 mph and could not use the left lane because it was essentially full of water, and c) oh yeah, it was now dark. I was almost in tears except I was too scared to stop for a breakdown. That's when I suddenly and spontaeously took a random turn - completely contrary to GPS and signs, and then the GPS said "Recalculating" and the next thing you know, I was headed north. By 9:30 I arrived in my comfey room in Albany which I booked through AirBNB - an old old beautiful house, and I get the room all the way at the top on the third floor. I stopped long enough for a shower and now I am collapsing. The hostess, Thessaly is her name, is quite nice - gave me all good directions for finding great breakfast and Archives in the morning.
OMG. Am I really in Albany, NY? I wonder what it looks like ?
OMG. Am I really in Albany, NY? I wonder what it looks like ?
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